Airbnb Review Removal Policy: Grounds for Asking Guests to Remove Retaliatory Reviews

TL;DR

To remove a retaliatory review, follow these steps. First, send a polite message to the guest asking them to remove the review. Keep a copy of this message. If they refuse and post a harsher review, document their response. Next, go to your Airbnb account dashboard. Find the "Resolution Center" or "Contact Support" option. Submit a formal request to remove the review. Explain that you asked the guest to remove the review first. State that they posted a retaliatory review instead. Attach copies of your message and their response as evidence. This policy helps hosts remove unfair reviews that are posted out of spite. It does not apply to genuine dissatisfaction. Book an Airbnb strategy session to discuss review management tactics.

Key Facts

MetricValueSource
Percentage increase in bookings from high-quality photos24%Airbnb Photo Optimization: Guide to Stunning Listing Images
Percentage increase in views for listings with professional photosup to 40%How Airbnb Increased Bookings by 25% with 3 Trust-Building...
Short-term rental industry size in 2025$72 billionThe US's Best Short-Term Rental Markets for Investing (2026)
Percentage of travelers who check reviews before booking85%2025 Airbnb Booking Conversion Rate: From View to...
Percentage of guests who return to the same host30%2025 Airbnb Booking Conversion Rate: From View to...
Percentage of listings with instant book option45%2025 Airbnb Booking Conversion Rate: From View to...

What This Means

For hosts, this policy means you have a way to handle unfair reviews. If a guest writes a bad review after you asked them to remove an old one, you can act. Airbnb's system lets you report reviews that seem like retaliation. You need to show proof that the review is unfair. This helps keep your property's reputation honest.

This policy gives hosts a tool to fight back against unfair ratings. Retaliatory reviews can hurt your listing. They make your property look worse than it is. This can lead to fewer bookings. Fair reviews help your listing succeed. They show future guests that your property is good. Unfair reviews can damage trust. Fair reviews build trust. More trust means more bookings. This policy helps you get fair reviews. Fair reviews help your listing stand out. They show that guests had positive experiences. This leads to more trust and more bookings.

Why It Matters

Retaliatory reviews happen when a host asks a guest to remove a comment. The guest instead posts a harsher review in response. This behavior can be damaging to your listing's reputation. Airbnb's policy on review removal for retaliatory reasons exists to protect hosts from this unfair dynamic. It creates a mechanism where hosts can challenge reviews that appear to be posted out of spite rather than genuine dissatisfaction.

The stakes are high because reviews directly impact your listing's visibility and conversion rate. As [Source label] notes. Listings with professional photos saw up to a 40% increase in views. Negative or retaliatory reviews can counteract these gains by creating doubt in potential guests' minds. This policy gives hosts a tool to address unfair feedback that might otherwise permanently damage their listing's credibility.

How It Works

Airbnb's review removal policy for retaliatory reviews works through a formal submission process. When a host believes a review is retaliatory. They must first document their request to the guest and any evidence of the guest's refusal. This documentation serves as proof that the negative review was posted in response to the removal request rather than stemming from the guest's actual experience.

The policy is designed to balance guest freedom of expression with host protection against unfair feedback. It requires hosts to demonstrate a clear causal link between their request and the guest's retaliatory action. This prevents hosts from simply asking guests to remove reviews and then claiming retaliation when they refuse. Ensuring the policy is used appropriately.

Step-by-Step Procedure

Use this section as a decision checkpoint before you move to the next step.

How to Request Removal of a Retaliatory Review

  • Document the original review.Take screenshots of the review you want removed. Noting the date it was posted.
  • Send a polite request to the guest. Ask them to remove their review, explaining why (e.g., inaccuracy, outdated comment). Keep this request professional and non-confrontational.
  • Document the guest's response.If they refuse and post a harsher review. Take screenshots of both their refusal and the new retaliatory review.
  • Submit a formal removal request.Go to your listing's review section. Click "Report a problem," and select "Report a problem with a review." Choose the option for "Review removal" and then "Retaliatory review."
  • Provide evidence.Upload screenshots of your request. The guest's refusal, and the retaliatory review. Clearly label each piece of evidence.
  • Wait for Airbnb's decision. The review team will evaluate your case based on the evidence provided. They may contact you for additional information.
  • Appeal if necessary.If your request is denied. You can appeal the decision by providing additional evidence or context.
  • Consider professional help.If you're struggling with review management. Book an Airbnb strategy session to discuss review optimization tactics.

Decision Criteria

Airbnb uses specific criteria when evaluating requests to remove retaliatory reviews. The platform looks for clear evidence that the review was posted in direct response to the host's request for removal. This includes documentation of the request itself and evidence that the guest's new review is significantly harsher than their original comments.

Hosts should be aware that not all negative reviews will qualify for removal under this policy. Airbnb requires a demonstrable link between the request and the retaliatory action. According to [Source label]. [stat value] of listings with high-quality photos receive more bookings. Emphasizing how review quality affects business outcomes. This policy helps hosts maintain review integrity but requires proper documentation.

Common Mistakes to Avoid

Several common mistakes can undermine a host's attempt to remove a retaliatory review. First, hosts sometimes fail to document their initial request to the guest. Making it difficult to prove the causal link. Second, hosts may not clearly label their evidence when submitting it to Airbnb. Causing confusion for the review team.

Another frequent error is waiting too long to request review removal. The closer in time your documentation is to the retaliatory review. The stronger your case. Also, hosts should avoid making threats or demands in their communication with guests. As this can weaken their position if the guest does post a harsher review.

Finally, hosts sometimes misunderstand what constitutes a retaliatory review. Simply asking a guest to remove a negative comment doesn't automatically make a subsequent review retaliatory. The new review must be significantly harsher or include personal attacks to qualify under Airbnb's policy.

Are You Allowed to Ask Guests to Remove Reviews on Airbnb?

Yes, hosts are allowed to ask guests to remove reviews on Airbnb. There are important guidelines to follow. According to Airbnb's review policy, hosts can request review removal if they believe the comments are inaccurate, outdated, or violate community standards. However, hosts should approach these requests professionally and avoid making demands or threats.

The key is to frame your request as a polite inquiry rather than an ultimatum. For example, you might say. "I noticed your review mentions an issue with the Wi-Fi that has since been resolved. Would you consider updating your review to reflect the current experience?" rather than "Please remove your review or I will report it."

It's also worth noting that asking guests to remove reviews doesn't guarantee they will comply. Some guests may refuse. In rare cases, they may post harsher reviews in response. This is where Airbnb's policy on retaliatory reviews comes into play. Providing a mechanism to address such situations when they occur.

Can a Guest Remove a Bad Review on Airbnb?

Yes, guests can remove their own reviews on Airbnb. They must do so within a specific timeframe. According to Airbnb's review policy. Guests have 14 days after posting a review to remove it. After this period, reviews become permanent and cannot be deleted by the guest.

This guide policy gives guests a window to reconsider their feedback. Especially if they realize they included inaccurate information or if the issue they mentioned has been resolved. For hosts, this means there's a limited window to ask guests to remove their reviews. Making timely communication crucial.

It's important to note that guests can only remove their entire review, not individual parts. They cannot edit specific sentences or points within a review. This all-or-nothing approach means hosts should be strategic about when and how they request review modifications from guests.

What Is the 80/20 Rule for Airbnb?

The 80/20 rule for Airbnb refers to a general guideline suggesting that hosts should focus 80% of their efforts on the 20% of activities that yield the highest returns. In the context of reviews. This might mean spending 20% of your time on review management while focusing 80% on other revenue-generating activities.

This guide principle can be applied to review removal requests as well. Hosts should prioritize addressing reviews that have the most significant impact on their listing's conversion rate. Rather than spending time on every negative comment. According to [Source label]. [stat value] of listings with high-quality photos receive more bookings. Suggesting that visual presentation might be a higher priority than review removal in some cases.

The 80/20 rule reminds hosts to be strategic about their time and resources. While review management is important. It shouldn't consume all of a host's energy. Instead, hosts should identify the most impactful reviews and focus their efforts there. Leaving less significant feedback to naturally fade in importance over time.

How Do I Remove an Unfair Airbnb Review?

Removing an unfair Airbnb review requires following a specific process and providing evidence of why the review is unfair. First, document why you believe the review is unfair,this could be factual inaccuracies. Outdated comments, or personal attacks. Then, submit a formal request to Airbnb support through your account dashboard.

Airbnb categorizes review removal requests into several types, including retaliatory reviews. Reviews that contain personal information. Reviews that violate community standards. Each category has specific criteria that must be met for removal to be granted.

For unfair reviews that aren't explicitly retaliatory. Hosts should focus on providing concrete evidence of inaccuracies. For example. If a guest claims your property is dirty. You might provide photos of the clean property or documentation of your cleaning procedures. The more specific your evidence. The stronger your case will be.

It's also worth noting that hosts cannot remove reviews simply because they are negative. All reviews, even critical ones. Are generally allowed as long as they don't violate Airbnb's review guidelines. The key is to focus on the specific reasons why a review might be considered unfair or inappropriate under Airbnb's policies.

Hold the price longer than you think you should. Discount harder than you think you should. Only inside 7 days. The shape of the curve matters more than the area under it.

Plain-English Check

Start with one listing. Pull the next 30 days. Count the gaps. Mark the weak nights. Change one rule. Check pickup next week. If demand moves, keep the rule. If demand stays flat. Test the next lever.

Do not fix every setting at once. Pick one listing. Pick one week. Pick one rule.

Good pricing is simple to test. Bad pricing hides inside averages.

The tool gives a signal. The operator makes the call.

How to Document Evidence for a Retaliatory Review Claim

If you suspect a guest wrote a bad review after you asked them to leave, you need proof. Airbnb examines events before and after the review submission. Track all communications and guest actions meticulously. This documentation helps demonstrate the review may be retaliatory. Guests might check out early or post one-star reviews following conflicts. You can request review removal if you provide evidence of guest misconduct. Airbnb verifies reviews reflect honest feedback rather than revenge. They assess whether the review appears to be retaliation. Always maintain copies of critical emails and messages. This practice simplifies proving your case to Airbnb support.

Collecting Communication Records

Save every message you sent or received from the guest, including emails, Airbnb messages, and texts. Write down dates and times for each interaction to create a clear timeline. Note any problems or arguments you had, especially if you asked the guest to leave, and keep proof of that request. A timeline helps show what happened and can reveal suspicious patterns. For example, if you asked someone to leave on Monday and they posted a bad review on Tuesday, this timing might suggest retaliation. Always be honest about what you did, as lying can hurt your case. The more proof you have, the better your chances are of resolving the issue fairly.

Take screenshots of important messages, ensuring the dates and times are clear in each capture. You can also write a short summary of each conversation to help you remember details later. If you have witnesses, ask them to write down what they saw, as a neighbor or another guest might have seen something important. Keep all this information in one organized place, as organized records make it easier to show Airbnb what happened. They need to see that the review might be because of something specific you did, not just a bad experience the guest had.

Creating a Timeline of Events

A timeline shows what happened in order. Start from when the guest booked the stay. Include any issues that came up during their visit. Write down when you asked them to leave. If you did. Note when the review was posted. This helps show if there is a connection. For example. If you asked someone to leave on day three and they reviewed on day four. It looks like revenge. A clear timeline makes it easier for Airbnb to understand. They can see if the review seems unfair.

Use a simple list or chart for your timeline. Include dates, times, and what happened. This helps you remember details. You can also add notes about how the guest acted. Were they angry or upset? Did they say anything about leaving a bad review? These details matter. The more information you have, the better. Always be honest when making your timeline. False information can get you in trouble. A good timeline helps prove your case and shows Airbnb that the review might not be fair.

Understanding Airbnb's Review Removal Process Timeline

It takes time for Airbnb to look at your request to remove a review. They need to check all the information you give them. This process can take a few weeks. Be patient and wait for their decision. You can follow up if it has been too long. Do not call every day. Airbnb will let you know if they need more information. Make sure you answer quickly if they ask for more details. The faster you respond. The faster they can make a decision. Always check your email for updates from Airbnb.

When to Expect a Response from Airbnb

Airbnb usually takes between two and four weeks to respond. This can change depending on how busy they are. If it has been more than a month. You can send a polite follow-up email. Do not be angry or demanding. Just ask if they need more information. Sometimes they might ask you to resend documents. Make sure you keep copies of everything you send. This makes it easy to resend if needed. Remember, Airbnb has many requests. It might take time.

After they review your case. They will send you an email. They will tell you if the review was removed or not. If it was not removed. They might explain why. Read their message carefully. If you still think the review is unfair. You can try again later. Maybe you can add more proof next time. Always be polite and respectful in your emails. This helps you get a fair review from Airbnb. They want to make sure reviews are honest. They take their time to check everything.

What Happens If the Review Is Not Removed

If Airbnb decides not to remove the review. You might feel upset. But there are still things you can do. First, read their reasons carefully. Maybe you missed something. You can ask for more details if you do not understand. Sometimes, Airbnb might suggest other options. For example, they might help you talk to the guest. Or they might tell you how to improve your listing. Do not give up if the first try does not work.

You can try again later if you find new proof. Maybe the guest did something else that you did not know about. Keep all your records in one place. This helps if you need to make another request. Also, think about how to prevent this in the future. Maybe you need to be clearer with guests about rules. Or perhaps you should check in more often during their stay. Learning from mistakes helps you do better next time. Always remember that Airbnb wants fair reviews for everyone.

Best Practices for Communicating with Guests to Avoid Negative Reviews

Good communication can stop bad reviews before they happen. Always be clear about rules when a guest books. Send a welcome message before they arrive. This helps them know what to expect. If a problem comes up. Talk to the guest right away. Do not wait until the end of their stay. Being friendly and helpful makes guests happy. Happy guests are more likely to leave good reviews. Even if something goes wrong. A polite conversation can fix it.

Setting Clear Expectations Before Arrival

Inform guests about rules in your listing and messages. Explain quiet hours, pet policies, and check-in times clearly. Use simple words so they understand your expectations. Send a welcome book with more details to help guests know what you expect. If guests follow the rules. They will have a good stay. A good stay often leads to a good review. Always answer questions quickly to show you care about their experience. Guests appreciate hosts who are easy to reach.

Before arrival, send a message to remind guests of important rules. Tell them about parking restrictions or trash day schedules. This helps avoid confusion and ensures a smooth stay. Ask if they have any questions to address concerns early. Being proactive makes guests feel cared for and prepared. If guests know what to do. They are less likely to make mistakes. Always be polite in your messages. A friendly tone can prevent misunderstandings. Guests remember how you treated them before arrival. Good communication sets the stage for a positive stay and reduces the chance of negative reviews.

Handling Issues During the Stay

If a problem comes up. Talk to the guest as soon as possible. Do not wait until it gets worse. For example. If they are too noisy. Ask them politely to be quieter. Most guests will understand. If they break a rule. Explain why it matters. Sometimes a simple conversation can fix things. Always stay calm and respectful. Yelling or arguing will not help. Guests are more likely to listen if you are kind.

Offer help if something goes wrong. Maybe the Wi-Fi is not working or the heater broke. Fixing problems quickly makes guests happy. They will remember how you helped them. Even if it is not your fault, take responsibility. Say sorry if they had a bad experience. This shows you care about their stay. Guests appreciate hosts who solve problems. If you handle issues well. They might even leave a good review. Good communication during the stay can turn a bad situation into a positive one.

Legal Considerations When Dealing with Airbnb Reviews

Reviews can sometimes cross the line into defamation. This means the review might be false and hurt your reputation. If this happens, you might need legal help. But remember, most reviews are just opinions. Opinions are usually protected. Only false statements that harm your business might be a problem. Always check local laws if you think a review is illegal. Legal action is rare. It is good to know your rights. Sometimes, a lawyer can help you understand if a review is really harmful.

Defamation and False Statements in Reviews

Defamation happens when someone says something false that hurts your name. For example. If a guest says your place is unsafe when it is not. That could be defamation. But it is hard to prove. You need to show the statement is false and caused harm. Most reviews are just opinions. Which are legal. Only very bad lies might be a problem. If you think a review is defamation. Talk to a lawyer. They can tell you if you have a case. Do not try to handle this alone if it is serious.

Keep records of any false statements. This helps if you need to prove defamation. But remember, most bad reviews are not illegal. They are just someone's opinion. Focus on using Airbnb's review removal process first. Legal action should be a last resort. It is expensive and takes time. Most hosts do not need to worry about defamation. Just make sure your place is safe and follow all rules. This way, guests will not have real reasons to leave bad reviews.

When to Consult a Legal Professional

If a review is very harmful and false. You might need a lawyer. For example. If a guest says you did something illegal. That could be a problem. A lawyer can help you understand your options. They can also talk to Airbnb for you. But most of the time. You can handle reviews on your own. Legal help is expensive. Try other ways first. Only go to a lawyer if you are sure the review is illegal. They can tell you if you have a good chance of winning.

Legal professionals can also help you understand local laws. Some places have rules about reviews and ratings. A lawyer can tell you if you need to follow extra steps. But remember, most issues can be solved without legal help. Use Airbnb's tools and be patient. If you do need a lawyer. Look for one who knows about hospitality or real estate. They will understand the best way to help you. Always ask for a free consultation first to see if they can really help with your problem.

How to Improve Your Airbnb Listing After a Negative Review

A bad review can hurt your listing. But you can fix it by making your place better. Look at the review carefully. Does it mention real problems? If so, fix those issues. For example. If the guest said the Wi-Fi was slow. Get a better router. If they complained about cleanliness, hire a cleaner. Small changes can make a big difference. Also, update your listing to show improvements. This helps new guests trust you. Always aim to give the best experience possible.

Addressing Specific Complaints in Reviews

If a guest mentions a problem, take it seriously. For example. If they said the bed was uncomfortable. Buy a new mattress. If they complained about noise, add better insulation. Fixing real issues makes your place better for future guests. Also, update your listing to mention these changes. This shows you care about reviews and make improvements. Guests appreciate hosts who listen to feedback. Even if the review was unfair. Use it as a chance to improve. Sometimes, guests might point out things you did not know about.

Make a list of all complaints. Then, decide which ones you can fix. For example. If a guest said the shower was cold. Check the water heater. If they said the place was too small. You might not be able to change that. But you can add mirrors to make it feel bigger. Always be honest in your listing. If your place is small, mention it. This way, guests will not be surprised. Fixing problems shows you are a good host.

Updating Your Listing to Reflect Improvements

After you make changes. Update your listing photos and description. Show the new improvements. For example. If you got a new mattress. Take a picture of the bedroom. If you fixed the Wi-Fi. Mention it in the description. This helps new guests see that you care about their stay. Also, add any new amenities you added. For example. If you got a coffee machine. Say so in the listing. Guests like to know what they will find when they arrive.

Keep your listing honest and accurate. Do not promise things you cannot deliver. But do highlight the good things about your place. For example. If you have a nice view, mention it. If your place is close to public transport, say so. These details help guests choose your listing. Also, read other good reviews to see what guests like. Use those positive comments in your listing. This shows potential guests what to expect. Always aim to make your listing as attractive as possible. Good reviews and a great listing go hand in hand.

Plain-English Check

Start with one listing. Pull the next 30 days. Count the gaps. Mark the weak nights. Change one rule. Check pickup next week. If demand moves, keep the rule. If demand stays flat, test the next lever.

Do not fix every setting at once. Pick one listing. Pick one week. Pick one rule.

Good pricing is simple to test. Bad pricing hides inside averages.

The tool gives a signal. The operator makes the call.

Frequently Asked Questions

How does airbnb review removal policy grounds ask guest to remove review retaliatory work?

Airbnb's review removal policy for retaliatory reviews works by allowing hosts to request removal if they can prove they asked the guest to remove a review and the guest responded with a harsher, retaliatory review. You must document your request to the guest and provide evidence of their refusal before submitting a formal removal request to Airbnb support.

Is airbnb review removal policy grounds ask guest to remove review retaliatory worth it?

Yes, pursuing removal of retaliatory reviews can be worth it. Especially if the review significantly harms your listing's conversion rate. According to [Source label]. [stat value] of listings with high-quality photos receive more bookings. Highlighting how review quality affects business outcomes. However, success depends on having strong documentation of the retaliatory behavior.

Does airbnb review removal policy grounds ask guest to remove review retaliatory actually work?

Yes, Airbnb's policy for removing retaliatory reviews does work. Success depends on proper documentation and submission of evidence. Hosts who provide clear proof of their request to the guest and the guest's retaliatory response have a higher chance of having the review removed. The policy is designed to address unfair feedback while maintaining guest freedom of expression.

Final Recommendation

When dealing with retaliatory reviews on Airbnb. Document everything carefully and submit formal removal requests through the platform's official channels. Focus on maintaining a professional approach throughout the process. As this will strengthen your case and preserve your reputation. Remember that review management is just one aspect of your listing's success,according to [Source label]. [stat value] of listings with high-quality photos receive more bookings. Suggesting that visual presentation may have an even greater impact on your bottom line.

Is rental arbitrage legal everywhere?

No. Arbitrage depends on the lease, building rules. City rules, permits, taxes, and insurance. Verify each layer before signing a lease.

When does coaching make more sense than a course?

Coaching fits best when you need diagnosis, accountability, or help with a specific property. A course fits better when you need a lower-cost curriculum and can implement alone.

About the Author

Written by Sean Rakidzich, a short-term rental operator and educator. Check current platform rules, local requirements, and the cited primary sources before acting.

Start with the main no-money Airbnb business guide, then use the beginner Airbnb business guide to check startup basics before you choose a higher-risk path.

Sources

Useful source checks: Airbnb Co-Host Network, co-host basics, co-host payouts, local regulations, Airbnb service fees, AirCover for Hosts, Airbnb-friendly apartments.

Warning

Do not sign a lease until the city rule. Building rule, and written permission all pass.

Warning

Do not sign a lease until the city rule. Building rule, and written permission all pass.

One clear path
Pick the lowest-risk entry model before you add rent, furniture, or debt.

Plain-English Decision Checklist

Use this before you spend

  • Pick one path before you spend cash.
  • Write the next step on one page.
  • Check the city rule first.
  • Check the building rule next.
  • Read the lease before you pitch.
  • Ask for written permission.
  • Do not trust a phone yes.
  • Save the email with the yes.
  • Name the owner problem.
  • Offer one clear fix.
  • Sell one small service first.
  • Audit one weak listing.
  • Find the missing photos.
  • Find the slow reply gap.
  • Find the bad calendar rule.
  • Find the weak check-in note.
  • Do not promise profit.
  • Promise clean work instead.
  • Track each owner reply.
  • Send one follow-up note.
  • Keep the pitch short.
  • Show the owner the gap.
  • Show the next action.
  • Ask for a trial.
  • Start with guest messages.
  • Start with cleaning control.
  • Start with review recovery.
  • Start with listing cleanup.
  • Do not buy furniture yet.
  • Do not sign a lease yet.
  • Do not borrow for guesses.
  • Do not skip permits.
  • Do not skip insurance.
  • Do not skip reserves.
  • Price the worst week.
  • Price the empty month.
  • Price the repair call.
  • Price the lock change.
  • Keep cash for mistakes.
  • Keep the first unit simple.
  • Learn the guest flow.
  • Learn the cleaner flow.
  • Learn the owner report.
  • Learn the city rule.
  • Move up after proof.
  • Add risk only after proof.
  • Stop if the rule fails.
  • Stop if permission fails.
  • Stop if cash is thin.
  • Stop if the math needs hope.

Plain-English Decision Checklist

Use this before you spend

  • Pick one path before you spend cash.
  • Write the next step on one page.
  • Check the city rule first.
  • Check the building rule next.
  • Read the lease before you pitch.
  • Ask for written permission.
  • Do not trust a phone yes.
  • Save the email with the yes.
  • Name the owner problem.
  • Offer one clear fix.
  • Sell one small service first.
  • Audit one weak listing.
  • Find the missing photos.
  • Find the slow reply gap.
  • Find the bad calendar rule.
  • Find the weak check-in note.
  • Do not promise profit.
  • Promise clean work instead.
  • Track each owner reply.
  • Send one follow-up note.
  • Keep the pitch short.
  • Show the owner the gap.
  • Show the next action.
  • Ask for a trial.
  • Start with guest messages.
  • Start with cleaning control.
  • Start with review recovery.
  • Start with listing cleanup.
  • Do not buy furniture yet.
  • Do not sign a lease yet.
  • Do not borrow for guesses.
  • Do not skip permits.
  • Do not skip insurance.
  • Do not skip reserves.
  • Price the worst week.
  • Price the empty month.
  • Price the repair call.
  • Price the lock change.
  • Keep cash for mistakes.
  • Keep the first unit simple.
  • Learn the guest flow.
  • Learn the cleaner flow.
  • Learn the owner report.
  • Learn the city rule.
  • Move up after proof.
  • Add risk only after proof.
  • Stop if the rule fails.
  • Stop if permission fails.
  • Stop if cash is thin.
  • Stop if the math needs hope.